Why do you think the universe was made?
Wow, really just jumped in there, didn’t you?
No harm in asking.
I suppose you’re not wrong.
So?
Hm… maybe because when you are everything the only thing you can gain is to be something. What do you think?
Possibly. Or because nothingness has to take some kind of form.
Why must it?
I can’t conceptualize it fully. It’s a paradox: nothing is something. Okay, take this idea: most of an object is empty space but it’s too small to observe (the photons hitting our eyes are processed into a blurred image of reality). But that empty space isn’t nothing. There’s something there. We just have no idea what it is.
I understand what you mean in that vain. I suppose I’m hitting a different idea then. In your case I would agree by saying that there is no such thing as nothing since even the idea of nothing is within the reality of something. As you put it, “nothing is something”.
Okay, so in what way were you saying then?
I was trying to point out that an infinite thing can’t take a form. To take anything as something is to allow for an imperfection because to be something is not something else. Any characteristic of any sort will result in it not having some other characteristic making the once anything, or everything, into something. As an infinite thing in all ways, the only way it can gain anything is by making or becoming something.
Yet, I think everything is the same. It’s just the form it takes. So, something is something else just in another form. The infinite thing doesn’t take a form it gives form.
It gives form, yes, exactly. I agree that everything is the same because it is all something, but none of what we have seen is everything… at least I think. And here’s something interesting: we give form to everything as well. We are the god of our universe as we, from our own definitions of what is and is not, create everything that is the same into something. So, we are finite gods. Hm, I wonder if the Greeks weren’t as far off as we thought.
I’d disagree to even call something a finite god because we don’t even have control over ourselves. Our minds, our bodies, there’s so much we have little to no control over.
But even the lack of control is a manifestation from ourselves. We, as god, create this lack of control. To not have control over something is entirely created by the creator. Because you have to have defined something’s to take or give control. Let’s break down the process of “not having control”. I first conceptualize what a body and mind is (the things that I feel I must protect). I then define what takes away my control from them (for example, someone holding a knife to my throat). Following that, I define whether something is one of those things in the present moment. And finally, I think, feel and act accordingly. The only reason we don’t have complete control over this process is that the ego has disillusioned us from thinking these things just are, rather than our own creation. It’s really all about control and how you think you have compared to what you do have. And the ego does this because if we know we have total control then we can create our realities independent of the one that makes our finite bodies survive best.
I have no idea what the first big point means but I agree with the last two messages. It’s very easy to not realize what we’re capable of. How does the ego disillusion us from thinking we have control?
Elaborate before I answer. What exactly are you asking that the ego disillusions us from? What does it make us believe we control?
I suppose control is the real illusion. Objective reality will exist no matter what, it simply is. But the subjective reality can be very fragile and that’s where I believe we want control. But there’s no way to have control over objective reality. Confidence plays a role here, when things in the objective reality play out how we like it gives us confidence/a sense of control but it’s really an illusion.
Objective and subjective reality, how can the two be separate? Your subjective reality does determine your objective reality. And I would say it is yours. Like all that stuff on how someone looks prettier or worse as you learn their personality or as you grow scared the thing that you fear is larger from your point of view (something like that). Plus, what exactly is even being controlled? I would say our perception of things are the ones worth protecting. What are we protecting ourselves from? Things we see as things that can harm us. And so, the ego makes these things. It gives names and value to everything. Because that’s how we see, through value and label. Our ego creates our reality. And in truth we are creating it, it’s just that we follow the rules of the ego because that is all we know.
Hm, I guess the ego does construct it all.
I mean… I don’t know.
So why was the universe made then?
I guess how I see it is that the only way to gain anything as all infinite everything is to make something. To put finite limits on itself and therefore creating a new version of itself. And I guess the only fitting thing to do with these new finite parts are to let them play and see how they work. I guess to watch them unfold and find joy as they learn and grow.
Sounds like you believe in god then?
It definitely sounds that way.